QSCP Chapter One

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Chap. I.

Wherein are Discovered my Inducements, to follow this Sect of the People called QUAKERS.

Having from my Youth, an earnest Desire after those things that were Just, Honest, and Good: I set myself to find out those means that might conduce thereunto, if by any I means that might satisfie my doubting Soul; Notwithstanding, I found no satisfaction for some Years. At last, came a People which were called Quakers, declaring, That the Kingdom of Heaven was in Man, and that there was a Light, or Understanding in every man, which did shew both Good, and Evil; and that this was a Divine Light, or measure, which was given to all men, to Rule, Guide, and Govern themselves by it, and sufficient to bring them to the Knowledge of God, and the Mysteries of Godliness: These things I pondering in my heart, and considering that swift Witness in my Breast, which did condemn me, when I did what was Unjust, and justifie me, when I did that which was Good; these things wrought in me a strong belief, that what they spake, was Truth. Further, they declared, that we were the Sons of Adam, made of the same Mold, and that it was only the Pride and Ambition of men, that they sought to bear Rule over one another, and to bring their follow-Servants into Subjection, by Oppression and Cruelty, if they refused to submit; affirming, that all ought to live Soberly and Righteously, without Opposition or Oppressing one another; For as we {Page 2} were all the Sons of Adam, so there ought to be no respect of Persons amongst us; but that we should live soberly one among another, as Brethren and Children of the same Parent; that we ought not to look upon one another as Lord or Master, but to be of one Heart and Mind, Worshipping God in singleness of heart, without Lordship or Dominion one over another; That none should bear Rule over another’s Conscience, that all should live together in Love, without Backbiting, or speaking Evil one of another; That Love and Unity might abound amongst us, and we become a Choise People of God. These, and the like Doctrines, did so exceedingly work upon me, (being at that time about 19. Years of Age,) that I resolved to acquainted my self farther with them, and with their Doctrine; and in order hereunto, I did frequent their Meetings, where I heard them declare, That man ought to do unto all men as he would that they should do unto him; also, that they ought to fear the Lord, refraining from Evil, and all Ungodly actions: and as I said before, that men should not lord it one over another, by reason of their great Estates; for all Kings, Princes and Nobles of the Earth, are no more in the eye of the Lord, than the Beggar on the Dunghill: that God did delight as much in the meanest Person, if they walk Righteously before him, as he did in the greatest Potentates: So that all Worshiping and Preferring of one before another, was contrary to Truth. All these things I considered in my self, and finding no thing in them then but what was consistent with their Teaching, I Joyned with them, and with much servency of Spirit, did endeavour to instruct others in the same, that they might walk uprightly, and soberly before their Creator, that so they might find rest to their Souls, when Time shall be no more; but for this Time of this Terrestial being, they could not expect but to have Trouble and Tribulation; but this was but for a time, and this time was soon past, and then they should have Rest for their Souls for ever.

This is the whole scope of that which I did intend by it, (that is to say) That man was composed of Soul, Body, and Spirit; and at the Dissolution of this Body, that the Soul should still remain a Spiritual body, which should be capable of Joy, or of Sorrow. This Resolution, Faith, and Belief, I was resolved to stand to, and that none should move it; As also all that man could do, in Speaking and Teaching, was but to direct them to Christ, and that he alone was the only Help and Way to Salvation; and by him the Soul should be redeemed {Page 3} from sin; and that he was the Rock of Ages, and all Generations that put their Trust in him, and fall down before the greatness of his Majesty, with humble and contrite submission of our sins, and true Repentance, which was not to be repented of; Further declaring , that there was none able to give a Remission for sin but Christ; and that all those that did pretend to forgive sins were out of the Truth, and that all Laws made or Holden upon that account, were Erronious, false, and out of the Truth; and all those that did pretend to remit any sins or Transgression, were out of the Truth; and were of Antichrist, and that old Serpent the Devil; for they had no power to call any to an account for sin, and to remit at their pleasure.

Of the Quakers Self-contradiction, Abuses, Back-biting, and false Accusing one another; as also,of their Active persecution.

Now after some time I had spent upon this account, being not burthen-some to any, for I never took money, nor moneysworth of any person; whereas, there were some that did take both Silver and Gold, with other things; but I labored with my own hands for my bread, and money that I spent, and was not beholding to any.

Now after a short time, there crept in amongst them, some who look’t after their Interest; and whereas some of them were poor before, now begin to thrive in the World, and then they went on with their Ministery with more courage; and if they were cast into Prison, then they had all their business done for them, better than others could have done; for their moneys, and all things were provided for them, as well as if they had been at home: by this means their Ministery was no burthen to them; for the Rich would help them with Money, Horses, and Waynes, and the Poor with Labour, so that there was nothing wanting. But this, in a short time, did beget some Heart-burnings amongst them; for those that did do the most for them, those were the only men in their eyes, and were the most esteemed by them; Here one may see how Gifts blind the eyes of the Wise.

But this turned to Heart-burning in some, seeing others to be so {Page 4} much esteemed, not that their Righteousness did exceed others, but that their gifts did purchase Favour and Affection; the other not able to do the like, did speak privately one to another about it, and said, This thing ought not to be: Some, as amongst all others, were too ready to carry tales, which is better taken with these persons, than if they had brought them a Present according to their Abilitys the others seeing also that the back-biters and tale-bearers did come in favour, did stumble at it; but they might as well keep silence, for if they did complain, they told them that they had lost their first love, and were clouded, and Darkness was come over them, and that they must mind their own conditions, & not look out at others. Some that were but weak, did think that all that they did say was true, and that they could not Erre; therefore they betook themselves to their Repentances, and after, learned better manners: but some others that did understand better, and knew that those things were not right, stood to it; so that this begat much Contention amongst them. But while these were speaking one against another, the others that believed the Minister could not Erre, they were repenting of their own miscarriages for speaking against their Ministers, and the other that took their part, which were able and sufficient men, of good repute, and might be serviceable unto them that were poor. And now by this time they are come into the Unity again; but the others stand in the same, telling them that those actions are like the World, and that it is not according to the Truth to respect Persons: But then come these new Penitents, which are again reformed, and these take the part with the other, and begin to reprove them that stand out, telling them that they themselves were in the same state as now they are, and that they, through the goodness of God, came to see their loss, and how they lost the Unity; and if ever they thought to come to Peace, they must condemn that in themselves, for speaking against the Ministers, and the other good Friends that stand in the Unity and Love, and that they must shrink down and mind their own condition, and Judge that down which is the cause of the breach of Unity, and then they should have Peace.

But the other being of a more single Judgement, still stand to it, which causeth their Ministers to look strange upon them, and will not own them; and if it chance, at any time, the Ministers take them by the hand to give them a gentle Reproof, they will but {Page 5} touch the tip-ends of their Fingers; and this is a sign to all the rest of their Friends; and this Person or Persons so saluted with the right hand of fellowship, hath lost his Condition, and is now falling from the Truth; then all that observe this, begin to be strange to him: then this man perceiving their unjustness in these things, and seeing their partiality, doth withdraw and leave them off, but for modesty-sake passeth it over, and with silence. But now I pray you, which of these four are the justest men? whether he that giveth to purchase Favour, or he that receives to shew it? or he that once spoke against them, and now is sorry for it? or he that standeth to his Principles?

These contentions were not only amongst the Common-sort, but also among their Ministers; for when they had been forth in some certain Country, where they had raised a People to themselves, then some other of them came that way; and peradventure, he was in more Favour then the first which had taken all the pains, and many times suffered long Imprisonment in those Parts; then when those which came after, were the most in respect amongst them; the other feeling this, that the other got the Fruit of his Labour, he was much dis-satisfied, that the other should after this sort have his Bishopprick taken from him, and another to enjoy the Fruit of the same; and as it were, to carry the Fame of it to himself: these many times would fall to words; but sometimes it fell out, that the first, through Dissatisfaction, returned home, and went to Visit his People no more.

I beholding all these Carriages amongst them, did put me something in a stand, but thought that it was their Weakness; but then I was resolved to observe all Transactions, hoping that in time all these things would be at an end, and so it was as unto that; for after, they did not take so much notice where they had been at the first; but for all this, some of them got amongst those, that which they did never deserve, and made it beneficial unto them for many Years after.

Not long before this, they spoke against Marriage, and said, That it was for Lust; and that men ought to lie soberly, For all lust came from the Devil: and so they spoke against Marriage in general; but this continued not above three or four Years, at which time, they began to Marry in Prison: and there was the first Marriage that I ever knew of.

{Page 6} After this, that their Ministers did marry in Prisons, then the Common sort would marry in the Meeting: And it was after this manner; Those two that were resolved to go together, (and many times there was not one that did know it besides themselves,) the Man and the Woman would stand up in the midst of them, or in some convenient place; the Man declaring after this manner, I take this Woman to Wife: And after, departed and went together as Man and Wife.

There were some also which were dissatisfied about some things which the other did hold, whereupon, there grew such Dissentions amongst them, that the one party would acknowledge the other neither to be of God, nor of the Truth; with some of these George Fox did encounter himself, but that would not overturn them, but still remained in their obstinacy; whereupon, there was, as it were, open War betwixt them, indeavouring to overthrow each other; but George Fox got the greater Party on his side, and then he did withal his might endeavour to overthrow the other; and if any of the other went to preach, or speak, in any Place or Meeting, he sent others of his Ministers to proclaime against them, and said, that he would follow them, that they should have no rest in England.

After this manner, when they were a little at rest from their Persecution of others, then they begin to persecute one another; That being about five or six Years agoe, they had no Court; by which means there was such Broyling, Judging, Condemning, and Back-biting one of another, that it would have made a civil man that understood not their Wayes, to have abhorred them for ever, to hear what Accusations they brought one against another; and ‘tis to be feared, that the greatest part of them was true: But all this while I was resolved to take neither the one, nor the others part, but to make Peace if I could, which I knew would not be any offense to either. But before this Quarrel was fully end, George Fox was cast into Lancaster Castle. And there to remain as long as please his Majesty.

The first cause of my dislike, as to the Quakers; and chiefly, of certain Principles holden by George Fox, and others.

In March 1664. Or 1665. I hearing that George Fox was at Lancaster in Prison, I was resolved to go to the place, and there to {Page 7} remaine for a certain time; as also, to have some Discourse with Geo. Fox. After some few dayes were spent, Geo. Fox had heard the I held the Earth to be round; and that when it was day with us, it was Night in other places; he was then desirous to convince me of this my Errour, (as he thought) and to make me Relinguish all such Tenents: I being come to the Castle where he was, he came to me, and Jo. Stubs told him of my Principle concerning the Earth, and its roundness; whereupon, Geo. told me that it was flat, and brought Arguments for it; that let a man travail never so far, he shall not see the Earth to bend round; he also Affirmed, that when it was 12 of the Clock with us, that then it was 12 of the Clock all the World over. Then I asked him, whether there was a new Sun every day? he answered, No, there was but one Sun; then said I, what becomes of it in the Night? or does it give light or not? or doth it go down into the Sea to cool itself? he said it went cross back again some way. But when he could not hold his Discourse, then he begun to father all this his Errours upon his Spirit of Revelation; and said, that it was revealed to him that it was so, and therefore it must stand to Truth, (he thinking that I would submit to that as many others do, which believe all that he and some others say is a Divine Truth, and must not be contradicted by any:) but at the last, reason did over-power these Divine Revelations. This was in the Great Room or Hall in Lancaster Castle.

At another time, I spake of Spirits, and said, that there were Spiritual bodies and Angels; but he denied all; and said, that there was Light and Darkness; and the one was of God, and the other the Devil; (meaning rather, that the one was God, and the other the Devil,) and that there was no distinct Spirits nor Angels, for he could never see them in the Divine Light. And further, did affirm, that if there were any, he should have seen them; but he never saw any, therefore there was none, This and the like words he spoke and held forth to me, to have me to believe, and become an Atheist or Ranter; for they both hold the same, and it is their Principle; and whosoever holdeth the same, is of the like Principle. This was spoken in Margaret Fell’s room in the aforesaid Castle.

Then I Discoursed with him about the Soul; and I affirmed, that it had a Spiritual body after this Life. He answered, that it was the Breath of God, and that in wicked men it was oppressed with {Page 8} sin, but it should be redeemed, and return to God that gave it; (that is) that all Souls shall return to Glory, Peace, and Happiness, and not to answer to any sin after this Life.

After this, Jo. Stubs and I being together in my Chamber, we did Discourse about the Soul of man after this Life; He said, that he did believe that there was no Punishment after this Life, and that which was in this Life was for Disobedience to the Light; and further, he said, That as all dyed in Adam, so in the second Adam (that is Christ) all were made alive, and that all should go one and the same way when they were dead, and that they should not have any Punishment for sin hereafter; but what was, it was in this Life; and that the Soul should go to God that gave it. And further, he said, It was not his Principle alone, for Geo. Fox did hold the same; and Geo. said, that those that did believe any otherways, were of the Old Opinion. But this must be kept secret, lest it should cast a Stumbling-block before the Weak; but as they came to grow up in the Truth, they would come to see it in the Light.

But I was altogether against him, and brought this Scripture of the Apostles against them; which said, If we have Hope but in this Life only, we are of all men most miserable. But let me say what I could, I could not persuade him from it, because Geo. Fox held the same, which I found too true, by Discoursing with him.

After this, I discoursed with George Fox about the Beasts of the Field, and creeping things; he did affirm, that they had Reason as well as Man; and that all the differences betwixt man and them, was only, that man was fallen from his first estate, and that the beast were not; that man was worse than the beast. I asked him, what difference there was betwixt the Soul of a man, and of a beast? he said, That God breathed into man the breath of Life, and so he did into all Creatures; and that all the Vertue in all things were of the Light; and when they were at an end, they did return to God again. For he looked upon God, not as being a Spirit, but a great Light, as the Light of the Day; and the Night, as the Devil; and that these are two great beings of themselves, and are without any cause as the day hath; for the Sin is the cause of the Light, and it’s absence the cause of the Night. But this he did not understand: I wish he may understand that there is a God, which is the first moving Cause of that Divine Life; and also, that there are Angels, or Devils; all which, he and others that believe not the same, may {Page 9} come to know the Truth of it too soon, for if there were nothing else but what he believeth, then what need men learn any thing? and certainly if this be true as he saith, then it must needs be true that that is a new Light which he hath, for it is not like that which the Prophets and Apostles had, for they believe that there were Angels which are Spirits, and also Devils that are Spirits: But how any such an one can truly know God, and teach his Truth, and all the Truths which belong to that great Divine Power, I know not, but leave it for others to Judge.

After this, when I understood that this was taking Root amongst some of the chief of them, I was resolved, that where-ever I found them holding these Tenents, or the like to it, I would use my best endeavour to overturn, if possible I could, lest in time it might grow, and so bring them into Arantism; this I resolved in my self, and in part put it forward; for meeting with some that were already Infected with it, by such Arguments as I brought against it, were something convinced that there was Spirits, and the man should have a Being after this Life.

Then these things put me to a stand, whether I should come amongst them or not, seeing they were falling from the Scripture, and from Truth it self, for this would lead into all Errors; but then again, I thought that it might be possible that I might overturn this grand Error, and by that means might doe much good; but there were many of the Chief of them which held the same, and when I would discourse with them, then I must submit to them, and also must repent for it before them, If I should speak of it again to any of them, by reason they thought I should set them one against another; for there are some amongst them that do believe that there are Spirits, and Angels, and that there is an Immortal Soul, which shall be received either into Joy and Glory, or into Woe and Misery: but they thought if this should come forth, that they would question them about it, and then they must either maintain themselves by Lyes, or the other would Declare against them.

Yet for all this I was resolved to keep this rapt up in the close Garment of Secrecy, and not to declare it to others, lest at last it should come forth to the Ears of all men, and so turn a reproach to me, I being one of them, But still this false deluding Fancy did more and more work in them, by reason that they had fallen from the truth into these Errours, as aforesaid, and as you shall see further.

In the Year 1665, when the Great Affliction or Judgement (with which God was please’d by his hand to afflict this great City) did begin; having sent his Messenger the Plague and Pestilence, then when the Lord first stretched forth his hand to touch some, that so the rest might prepare themselves for him; at that time there being many of the Quakers in this City, the Lord spared them at the first, and struck not the first Stroke at them; at which time they boasted themselves, and would undertake to Prophesie all the Kingdom over; and to declare unto all people, That the hand of of the Lord was against this City for their Persecuting them; And as I have heard, they were so bold, as to give it forth in Print, That they were the servants of the Lord; and that he would cover their Heads in this His day of Judgment; And that it was only for the Wicked, And that the Saints of the most High should have their Heads covered in that day, and that those that were Faithful unto the Lord should be kept safe; And that now the Lord was Appearing to stretch forth his mighty dome, & would destroy the Wicked Persecutors; And that there should not any Friends dye, for now the Lord would shew who were His, in preserving them that were Unspotted, and Blamless; that this his Judgments should not come near their Dwelling place. They appropriated this to themselves, and pretended the Revelation of the Spirit for it: But let all Judge whether God himself seemed not Angry with them for their Boasting of themselves; for in a short time after, their dyed more of them than of others; but this it is, man is too much prone to boast of himself and his own Righteousness; but it is a vary sad thing, When he pretends to speak by the Spirit of Prophecy, and doth Lye against the Lord.

At this time I was at Lancaster, where the same Spirit of Prophesie was in the most Friends (as they are called) persuading others of them to the same; whereupon they declare the same, (that is) That no Friends should have the plague, but that the Lord would preserve them; And this was generally believed amongst them, but I for mine own part was resolved to speak my Judgment, not pretending that I had it from the Spirit, as they did: I told them, that as they were Corruptible bodies, they were as subject to change as well as others; that if the Sickness did Increase, (as I heard it did) that they should not be free from it any more than others: But some of them said, my Opinion was like me; but however, it {Page 10} was most like to the Truth; for within a month after, it proved as I said; and what they said of it, was false; (then whereas they would scarce look upon me, because they thought that I did it to cross what they had said; and they did believe what they had said, would come to pass, and that I was out of the Truth;) then when it came to pass, I was received into Favour again. But for all this, I was neither Exalted, nor cast down, but did desire with all my heart to reform these Absurdities and fake Visions, and counterfeit Sights, by which they did pretend to see and discern; but I for my part did desire to hide these things under the Coverlid of love, and to rap them in the secret corner of my heart; hoping that in time they would understand better; and that then they would esteem those that had been constant Lovers of that which was Just, and look upon them as their best Friends; for what I said, was out of the simplicity of my heart, and not for Favour, or for Envy.